Get tips from Robyn and Andrea in this episode on how to create your own fee structure. Whether you are a new coach or an experienced one, learn how to charge clients for your services without scaring them off all at once.
Tweetables
Dan Kennedy says that price exists in 3 places; in your mind, in the mind of the customer and in the market.[Click to Tweet!]
Goldilocks pricing gives you a high price, a low price and a price in the middle that is just right. [Click to Tweet!]
Customers have an idea about the price they want to pay regardless of what price you charge.[Click to Tweet!]
Have you used the rollover technique in your coaching? Listen to the CoachStreet podcast and find out how.[Click to Tweet!]
Full Transcript
Robyn: Ok, hi everyone it’s Robyn Logan here with Episode 11 of the CoachStreet podcast; Andrea is in already. Hi Andrea.
Andrea: It is great to be here.
Robyn: I’m really good and I’m really happy with this topic, Coaching Fees because I think, it’s a really important topic and it causes new coaches a lot of anxiety, in my experience. So, I’m going to switch over to you as I know you’ve done a lot of work with new coaches in setting coaching fees and my first question for you is, “Do you think there is a difference in your fee structure for new coaches or experienced coaches?”
Andrea: Yes, I subscribe to the idea that there are seasons in your business life cycle and I refer to them as like toddler, teen and then adults, there is a kind of phase 1, 2 and 3 in my opinion of fee levels, so as a beginner coach, you might have fees as low as a 150 dollars per session but as a better coach. Some of the highest fees I know and I have seen as high as thousand dollars per session or even higher than that so without a doubt, there is a range, what is the highest have you ever seen, Robyn?
Robyn: Well, the highest I’ve ever seen is 8,000 a month and that’s pretty high, I reckon. I don’t know the whole thing with pricing, I think it’s… there’s a great book by Dan Kennedy on pricing I think it’s called the “No BS Approach to Pricing” or something like that. But he says that price exists in three places; in your mind, in the mind of the customer and in the market. And I think that’s really important because a new coach for example, could be not confident so will drop their price so that’s one element that could happen. Another aspect is that your customer has an idea about the price they want to pay regardless of what price you charge and you know that’s the thing of some people will always buy the most expensive item, no matter what; that’s just how they see themselves. And then you’ve got price existing in the environment so you know, like, a bottle of water for example down at LD or Cosco with a big, huge discount supermarkets you can get for 25 cents but if you’re going to the airport or if you are at the tennis today, on a 44 degree day and you want a bottle of water, you would want to pay $4 because of where it is.
Circumstances Value
Andrea: Yeah, value is relative to the circumstances so, yeah I love that; that’s a really a good kind of touchstone that when you’re determining your price, think about what you feel good charging, you can have confidence charging, what you feel the customer will have ease, relative ease, in grasping the value of. You don’t want to set a price that has every single person saying What? Are you kidding? (laughs) That’s not, not a good thing and then within the context of the market what are other people charging. If I can buy a bundle, you know, a bunch of grapes you know, for this much at one grocery store, why would I pay three times as much at this other grocery store. So that’s a really lovely little 3-points, starting point. I know that one of the things that people get really tingled up with to is how to present coaching fees you know by the session can be really controversial. I don’t know about you, Robyn but I actually have a really strong opinion about the most effective ways to bundle your fees, to present your fees, even on websites.
Robyn: Oh good, good, strong opinions. Let’s go!
Andrea: Well, here’s the thing. I actually I want to give some really gutsy, ballsy advice here. I think that you guys like that, out there listening to CoachStreet. So, the ideal way, in my opinion and this is how I’ve grown up of over 13 years of being a coach is a price for one session, a price for three sessions and a price for nine sessions. So, let’s say for example, you have a one-session fee that’s $250, then your three-session fee might be $650 so $250 x 3, minus a little bit, right, and then your fee for nine sessions might be something like $1550 so you know, you can do the math: 9 sessions is 3x $650 and a little bit of a discount. So, why is this something that is really effective? It positions you as someone who cares about the well-being and the change that may occur in the client over a period of time. Selling single sessions I think just gives the wrong impression. How about you, Robyn?
Robyn: So you just said one session, but you do say put 1 session up, then 3 sessions then 9 sessions.
Andrea: Yeah, I guess to be specific, you’re right, you caught me; one session is more there as a positioning. It’s only selling your coaching sessions one session at a time that really makes my skin crawl, frankly. (laughs)
Monthly or Bundle Fees
Robyn: Yeah, I see what you’re saying, I prefer monthly fees so I’m interested why yours are not monthly in there per session. I prefer to charge a fee per month and I’d like to have a 3-month minimum. And that’s because I really find for any change to really occur, 3 months as a good, as a good period of time for that to happen, to put things in place, get structures in place and work out where the client is going, what’s happening and also as just for me as a coach just the investment of my time and energy I just sort of get annoyed when you put a lot of effort in because you put a lot of effort in at the beginning, or it’s a different type of effort that you put in at the beginning with a new client and so I prefer to get some commitment.
Andrea: Yeah, I think the philosophy between the monthly model which you’re championing which I love too, and the bundle model is the same. It really has that forward momentum and idea of a handshake and a commitment that’s longer than one session. I think there are pros and cons to both. For me, the reason to do bundles rather than monthly sessions is I find that in my area of coaching it can be frustrating for someone who does not necessarily have an issue this week and yet they have booked the coaching session. So, I had the experience of people showing up saying well, I really do not have anything to talk about but I have a coaching session today. And, that makes me really sad. So I really I look at the sort of the 9 session bundle as a sort of 3 to 6 month package
Robyn: And do you put a limit on that? It has to be used at a certain time?
Andrea: Exactly. 6 months is what I recommend
Robyn: So they don’t come back to you. (laughs)
Andrea: Or like when I’m 81 and retired and try to cash in their last coaching session. (laughs) Sorry, the paper that my notes on your coaching sessions disintegrated. (laughs)
Robyn: Yeah, that’s right. That’s if when you use paper..
Andrea: Yeah, so in that scenario, let’s say someone bought 9 sessions and I was allowing them to use it in 6 months then they could decide to use, 3 sessions, 1 month, 2 sessions, another month. There’s a little bit more fluidity to meet the needs of the timing of the client. For clients who, for whom discipline and showing up and doing the work even if they don’t think they need it, monthly is really nice. So, like I said there are pros and cons.
Robyn: The different approach for the monthly fee is the accountability and the structure. That’s what I love about it, and as a client I love that. It’s great because it makes me, gives me something that I have a coaching next week and I’d say, I’d do X, I better hurry up and do it, that sort of thing. So that works for me.
Andrea: So it is kinda like, as a coach you have a certain value around accountability and that discipline. You might want to go more with the monthly. What kind of fees are you…like, I showed you my numbers what numbers would you say? What are you saying is a monthly packages, Robyn?
Robyn: What did you say again? Just remind me, again. What was yours?
Andrea: Oh well, 250 as an example, as a starting place for 1 session
Robyn: For 1 session, but is that what you charge or is that what you’re saying as a new coach should charge?
Andrea: This is not necessarily a brand new coach but someone in their first year of coaching, perhaps.
Robyn: Well look what I feel are really an individual thing because of those 3 elements that I talked about, what is in your mind, what is in the customer’s mind and what environment are you working in. So, I’ve seen people charge fees as high as 8000 dollars a month working in executive environment, very experienced coach, very results-oriented, you know, is connected, has networks and is only gonna to have a handful of clients. So that’s at one end of the sky. And then you’re got new coaches who are not feeling confident so they don’t charge that much, who might working in a niche where you can’t charge that much, like you know, life coaching or parent coaching for single mothers who are trying to get back to work or something like that.
Andrea: Coaching for women who live in shelters.
Robyn: Yeah, that sort of thing. It’s just not… you know, you can’t charge an amount anyway, even if you wanted to. So, there’s that amounting to small business coaching, etc. so I would say 300 a month, is about the lowest I have seen our coaches charge to… up to 5, 6, 8, a thousand a month, that sort of thing. My fees personally are a thousand a month. But, I don’t have many clients any more. I’m a little bit out of touch with that. I probably haven’t… I do mainly coaching now for return clients or short stints. I don’t have ongoing clients anymore so probably if I did, I would probably try and propose fees up, if more, given what I know now and the value… because it’s about the value. The value that I could offer now is much probably higher than that.
Andrea: And that’s always the place to come from in you know…you don’t really sit in… so it’s just really quoting a client who’s returning to me after 3 years and really has seen a great return on investment for her coaching fees, thus far. And she’s going to have a substantially, you know it’s a substantial year plan that she has, she wants to have more than double her income. She’s already at multiple six figures so when I was quoting even you know this long in the tooth, this many years into coaching, I’m thinking to myself, I’m charging too little. (laughs) And, so really understanding that if my job is to help this person go from multiple six-figure fees, she wants to double that. If I have the confidence in the deliverable regardless of what it is, whether a health coach or a relationship coach, then that’s the place, that confidence is the place from which to work on your fees.
Should coaches put their fees out on their website?
Andrea: Robyn, the question I get so often if I am not stepping on you is: Should coaches put their fees out on their website? I get that question so often.
Robyn: Yeah, I get that question.. look, I think it depends again you know it sounds like a cap out, but I think it depends on what level client you’re after. I’d say that rule of thumb is at the lower end yes, and the higher end, yes. But if I have to, my default position would be, Yes. And that is just not backed by science or split testing or anything like that, it’s backed by my own personal frustration with websites where people don’t put their fees on and I’m having to ring up… like I’m talking about even just things like when we decided to move from Dropbox. We need something else because in the company there’s so many staff now; there’s 43 staff all around the world, all using Dropbox and it was just getting crazy and we had space limitation. So we were looking for something else and we went to Box, I don’t know if you’ve heard of Box but they’re like the new kid on the block. They are like Dropbox but they provide a lot more features and I mean it’s a great little software but no prices, couldn’t find them anywhere. So then finally I find the guy that’s the sales person for the Asia Pacific region. I ring the number and I get asked a lot of questions and I sort of feeling like I’m getting insulted, because the questions are all about: Where are you now in your business, Where do you want to be…so I’m just interrupting and honestly, I just need to know prices before it’s even worth me spending my time having this conversation. The guy then tells me, I will now book you in with our account manager and then I realize that he’s not even…he can’t give me a price. He’s the first guy, he’s the warmer, he’s the one that you know, qualifies me as the lead and finals me in. So, then, I’m now trying to make an appointment with another guy who finally I get on the phone. Oh and I sent him an email to just give me the price. I need to talk to you. I finally make an appointment to talk to him and I get the price. By that stage I’m not interested anymore. I don’t even want to buy it anymore because I’m annoyed. I’m angry…(laughs) so I hate that and that’s one of the reasons why you put your price up.
Andrea: Yeah, I am generally speaking very much aligned with you. When in doubt put something up. If you need to put your fees up slightly lower than you think you might be at, because you’d like to attract more leads or conversations, it’s OK to do that. You just need to you know say, approximately X fee and then once the person comes and talk to you, you could say well, it’s a range and based on what I’m listening to you and understanding all your needs, this would be the price. So, it is really just an approximation. It is not a bait-in switches just saying this is where they start and I need to hear what our work will be in order to give you a natural quote. So you kind of hedge your bet, that way. What I will say you know as a sort of business coach DNA showing up Robyn, that if you are someone who hasn’t have a lot of clients yet, and you are a little unsure about getting your first clients, I am actually of the opinion that it is OK to not have your fees up. There is definitely a scenario in which I agree a 100% with you Robyn, but when people are first starting out I would much rather get lots of different conversations, because people need to talk to you about your fees, practicing your fees, practice stumbling over your fees, practice having people shocked at your fees. (Laughs) That’s all an education and I’d rather you have lots and lots of that practice than less. As you move up into the teen and adult phases of your business, you can become more busy, right? like Robyn, she’s so busy, (laughs)…. in a good way, not in a terrible way. But just like you know when that way of then if Robyn has her fees up then a whole bunch of those tire-kickers will go away and she won’t have to have those conversations and waste her time.
Robyn: But going along with the other reason not to put your fees up, one of them is that I agree with you on the first reason it does create an immediate opportunity for conversation because you’ve created there a question that someone’s going ask you and they’re going to email you and ask that question and then you will have the opportunity to connect. That’s one reason and the other reason is you really don’t want people to buy on price. You really want people to buy on value or benefits. And so, the other thing that I also don’t like is that people just shop around on price and they just go to the cheapest one and buy that. What you really want to do is attract the sort of clients who are coming to you because they already know you and this is what sort of like the whole phase thing sort of… leads into marketing and sales but ideally they already know you because ideally you already putting up the whole lot of great content and providing value for free somewhere, whether that is Facebook or Blog, or whatever. So, they go to your website and they immediately find on your website that you offer the solution to whatever problem they have and that’s the sort of person you want to buy from you. So that’s the other reason maybe not to have fees.
Andrea: Brilliantly put; one thing that I wanted to also cover in this little episode is this idea of bundling, Robyn, I don’t know if you’re a fan but for the more experienced listeners something that can actually really be fascinating to experiment with, we can try. Let’s say you want to do more speaking gigs or let’s say you’d like to sell more books or something else in your business to generate income or you know just to expand your ability to do business as a coach, somehow, it can be really nice to bundle coaching services with other things.
Robyn: Yes
Andrea: So you know for example, I have a package that is a year of coaching with retreats, and you know another lower end membership that helps people to build their businesses. All of it together is much easier to sell than just coaching alone, or just the retreats, or just one of these elements. Does that make sense?
Robyn: I think that’s great, I think it is really good to have the different options and to bundle them up like that and the other reason to bundle them up and now the other reason and now we sort of are segwaying into selling which is just totally connected to price anyway, but I’m constantly saying to our coaches, Don’t sell coaching, don’t sell coaching because firstly, there is a small percentage of our population who know what coaching is and who are actually looking for a coach. Mostly, people want a solution to their problem and that solution sometimes isn’t just coaching on its own. So for example, you know, a company that is struggling with type of performance for its staff you’d probably be looking at a training plus coaching solution there, even perhaps in the parent coaching niche it’s a great idea to bundle up group coaching or a 6-week training program that acts as a feeder into your coaching which is then individual at a high right; that sort of thing like being able to package it up for 2 reasons. Packaging it up for the reason that you were talking about then which is just that thing that people like to choose. I think it is called Goldilocks pricing so you put 3 prices and people will choose the middle. And in fact, you look at all those pricing widgets they are all designed in a way that you can highlight the middle price. So that’s one reason to bundle on package is pricing and there’s a psychology behind that but the other reason to bundle is actually about providing the best service you can for your client. So, if you think about what your client’s needs are, rather than you think about your need to sell coaching, I’m a coach, I wanna coach, I’m going to sell my coaching. If you flip that around and think well, who’s my client, what’s typically the problem that they’ve got, and what type of solution would see them solve that and so for you, you’ve added a retreat in because you’ve obviously identified that that’s a very powerful way for your client to achieve their goals. So, you’ve put that in, you’ve put some coaching in, I don’t know if you’ve put any training in there, but that’s the other reason I say to bundle.
Andrea: Yeah,… and in the meantime flies on a great topic like this, really looking forward to your input because coaching fees is integral to everything, I know that some of your listening should be raising your fees and one of the things that I’ll say again, nitty-gritty, right practical, Robyn is when you’re looking to raise your fees, so often people say, Well, what do I do with my existing clients and really the simple answer is you give them notice. My fees will be going up in 30 days, 60 days, whatever it is. If you’re at the end of a coaching package or a near one or you foresee that you would like to continue our coaching process past this coaching package, I can give you this next 2 weeks to make that decision and you can opt to invest in another 3 months at the old price and that would be the final chance to take advantage of those prices but after that the fee will go up to this. Oftentimes, it’s a beautiful way to bump up your cash flow and that little changeover, and then you’ve done that courtesy of communicating this change in your fees and it’s not going to be a surprise when it comes time for them to re-app. with you.
Robyn: That’s a really great strategy, that’s a really good way to do it. I’m glad that we get this podcast transcribed so people can go back and read that; that’s a really good one. I think another thing is I’m just going to say right now… I think probably most people are under charging. You’ve said that before, didn’t you?
Andrea: Yeah, yeah.
Robyn: I think we could just put the challenge out here, put your fees up and see what happens, anyway. And I’ve got a great little story about this; I don’t know if I’ve told this before. I might have even said it on a podcast, I don’t know, so stop me if I have. But my first experience about this would have been about 20 years ago, literally. And I was just starting out and doing strategic planning and business planning and at that point I was working in the arts sector for communities of management and there was this one particular group and I won’t name them but they are an experimental arts gallery and the committee of management were (sigh) challenging, let’s put it that way and like you know, it was just difficult. They were very you know… making money you know and thinking like a business wasn’t something that they did naturally and so it was quite difficult to move them as a group towards getting even a strategy on paper. I find it difficult and I decided you know what, I actually don’t think I want to work … I really love them, they’re great people but I didn’t want to work for them anymore. I was just so inexperienced and didn’t really know how to say no which has taken me a long time to learn, but am pretty good now of knowing which client I don’t want… so, instead of saying no and when they rang me as they did every year to do the strategic plan, I just tripled my fee and I just wrote back, and well, look am really sorry and I’m doing this now and my fees are now this. Less than 24 hours, they wrote back and said that’s fine. I was like you’ve got to be kidding me!
Andrea: Excellent!
Robyn: So, two things happened there; firstly, I realized, right, I am under charging and secondly, I realized, because, I went and did it and you know what, it wasn’t quite so painful that I was getting paid 3 times that money. (laughs)
Andrea: I wondered if that was… It’s a very, very awesome story. Oh, I love that story, Robyn.
Robyn: It’s great and I think most people, if you put your fees up and as you said before, test it out, just do it and see what happens and then really what you need is a great coach, so that you can work on your anxiety around selling and I’m not even going to talk about that because I think we should do an entire podcast on selling coaching.
Roll-over Technique
Andrea: Yeah… feeling good to selling is a really big theme and it really is possible. I think maybe as a little taster… and as a final tip here is because it is so juicy. One thing I say is get into action right away is if you do in fact have a 1 session or a 3 session or a 1-month package for your coaching what is a really easy thing to do is, if you have people who have bought that, so let’s say you have 3 people who have bought 1 session from you using that model and pricing I suggested earlier. When they’re done with that session, it will sound like this, Robyn… Wow, I’d be glad to be working with you that you did so much in one hour. Now, just before we go what I’d love to suggest is that you know… I think it would be really fun to do more work. Now, I don’t know whether you think that, that would be great, but as far as making sure you know, I would consider it a privilege and an honor if you’d like to extend…let me extend a bit of a gift to you. You paid 250 dollars for this one session and as you may know or may not know, my 3-session package price is 650, and my 9-session package price is 1550, just because… I feel like my hair has been blown back and my socks have been knocked off. I would love to offer you that 250 dollar investment that you have made in today, as a credit towards one or the other of those 2 other packages.
Robyn: Ahhh…that’s a good…that’s very powerful; people would love that, do they?
Andrea: I can only offer you that if you are able to decide within the next couple of days. Obviously, like time is of essence and you know we are on a roll now and something like that so if you are ready and if you feel good about what we did here today then just email me back to say it’s a “go.” Then just email me back and let me know if it’s the 3-session or if it is the 9-session and we can book our next coaching call.
Robyn: Yeah, and I like that one and once again happy about the transcription, that’s great.
Andrea: People say yes to this a lot. We call it the roll-over technique. This is really, really effective.
Robyn: So you know I found this nifty little piece of code that I’m going to put on the website that has an automated tweet, right. So, look out for it when we put this one up and I’m going to tweet that one. So, basically what you do is quite easy. You pick out something that is tweetable and if you put this code in and you put in between the parameters, blah, blah. Then when people read the post, they just click the button and re-tweet it. They don’t have to copy and paste; it just creates, it automatically takes them to their tweeter account and they can tweet it. I’m tweeting the roll-over technique from this episode. So, shall we move on to news and updates?
Andrea: Yeah, let me just like high five. I thought that was a really fun little piece and I think we would agree, we’d love to hear if this has helped you to rethink your fees especially here now in the first quarter of 2014. You know I think anytime really think about the value you bring to the world.
Robyn: Yeah, Absolutely. Excellent! Alright, so let’s go on to news and updates. What have you got going on at the moment?
News Section
Andrea: I am going to be.. going it looks like to India. Very soon.. around the time this pod cast going out. It’s my first time heading to that continent and I don’t have rose-colored glasses Robyn. I don’t want to be run over by a sacred cow and you know, it’s one of those countries I know I’m going to be completely in love with and completely horrified by.
Robyn: Yeah, there are a few countries like that in Asia.
Andrea: It’s true, it’s true. my ancestors actually come from one of them. Yeah, so that’s what’s new and exciting. We’re going there to actually do some life coaching for women who have experienced gender based violence in India.
Robyn: Women who have experienced gender based violence in India is that not just a timely topic or what. I don’t know if you get as much news as we do, probably maybe we get a little bit more being in Asia Pacific; of the horrendous violence that’s happening towards women that’s happening in India, at the moment, public. Shocking. Terrible.
Andrea: So that’s what’s new and exciting.
Robyn: So, is that the sort of thing you’re talking about?
Andrea: Yeah.
Robyn: Wow, that’s amazing, so tell me more about that and what’s that through and who’s that and how does that happen?
Andrea: I think the fun thing about it, right Robyn is that it’s life coaching guys, everyone listen up. Your staff is good, what you’re doing is so needed. I’m doing this as part of and perhaps there will be a chance to show more concrete details. I’m doing this as part of a new role I’ve taken as Strategic Director for a not for profit, a family foundation. We’re going over there in partnership with an NGO that is going to take us around to different organizations working with women in shelters and working for women in general. The whole goal is to give them tools like,how to say no, drawing your boundaries, letting go of shame, some of the Brené Brown work. It’s all evidenced-based stuff, social science, so we’re all going to be teaching and coaching.
Robyn: Andrea just drew Brené Brown into that sentence and if you haven’t read or seen her before, do a goggle search on that and we’ll link as well from the transcript. Well, that sounds fantastic, Andrea.
Andrea: You’re in a heat wave.
Robyn: I’m in a heat wave. I’m surprised I actually could speak and was even semi-articulate.
Andrea: Well, I have to say, please send Robyn some cooling love because before we started this podcast, she said, I think I might need to keep my air conditioning on even if it’s you know, even if the sound may be audible. Usually, Robyn turns if off. You know, I think it’s better that the pod cast have a little bit of air conditioning sound o it, rather than the hospital picking you up for heat wave.
Robyn: (laughs)
Andrea: Because what is it? 40, something?
Robyn: It’s 44 degrees which for our American friends is 112, 111 Fahrenheit and not only is it 44 degrees, it’s nearly 4th day in a row that it’s 44 degrees and all jokes aside, it’s actually very bad because it’s just the opposite of what’s going on in some crazy places in America with the cold, like you know, Niagara Falls, frozen over. Did you see that photo? It’s just extraordinary. And so here, the opposite is happening. Up in Queensland, they said the temperature was going up to 50 degrees, I don’t even know what that is in Fahrenheit but I do know that there is a type of native bat out there; they are just falling off the trees dead, from heat exhaustion; which is just really bad. And you know, its not a good thing. And the tennis is on here, as well. The Australian Open. Can you believe it? they didn’t cancel it. They’re playing; those guys are playing in 44 degree heat.
Andrea: That’s actually, I don’t know, that is borderline insane. What else is new and exciting in your world.
Robyn: Well, what else is new and exciting is that school holidays is here which seems to go on for like, ever. All my friends said, can’t believe how many holidays we have in Australia and we do like a good holiday and this particular one is a 6-week holiday. Every January and so far we have done, Little Nippers down the Apollo Bay, which is a life saving club, which is a great program and I could not believe watching my kids swim like 300-400 meters out in the ocean with waves crashing over their faces which is extraordinary; but really every Australian kid has to learn to swim because of the rips and so many beaches. So we did that and then next week, I am going camping down to Hills Field and last time we were there, we saw this huge lace monitor which I don’t know if I’ve told you about. But, I’m going to use the photo. In fact, I’m going to use the photo for this episode. Do you know what it is? A lace monitor?
Andrea: No, no, no idea
Robyn: I’m not even going to say anything about it. I’m just going to put it in. All I’m saying, picture me seating by the creek, in my little chair, by myself and I heard a rustle and I thought, Oh, is that leaves dropping? and I ignored it and I heard it again and I turned around and the thing that I’m posting a photo of was you know, arms and legs, for me.
Andrea: This is the podcast that keeps on giving.
Conclusion
Robyn: That’s right, it does. (Laughs) And then work wise, what’s happening, we’re launching a new Learning Leader which is Training the Trainers, helping coaches create small training programs that they can use to bundle and package…Hello? Boom, boom…Segway?! (Laughs) So that’s coming out in February. So, they’re go…that’s it… I’m hot… I need a drink…
Andrea: Yeah, go before you melt and the learning leader thing falls to pieces. You know those things are fantastic. Thanks so much, this is a great topic. I love briefing on this, one of my favorite topics, actually.
Robyn: Yeah, me too. Thank you, see you next week or next month
Andrea: Bye
Robyn: Bye Send a voice message